The Gun Control Debate In A Nutshell

• Brad Can you provide evidence of this "fact"?

• Dan  The Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, in which 32 people were murdered, was the deadliest shooting incident by a single gunman in U.S. history.

  
  The Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, in which 168 people were murdered, remains the deadliest bombing incident in U.S. history.
  
  3,000+ people were murdered in 2001 as a direct result of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and United Flight 93. The 9/11 investigations concluded that the hijackers used box knives to take control of the four aircraft. Therefore those box knives were either the direct or proximate cause of the death of each and every person who lost their life by being a passenger or crew member of one of the aircraft, by being at the Pentagon, or by being in or near the vicinity of the World Trade Center.
  
  If you have evidence to refute my claim, please provide it.

  
  
• Bill Kumpe Yes, I can provide evidence supporting Dan's statement thank you. 2977 people died as a result of the Sept. 11 attacks which were committed with box cutters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks

  
  
• Brad You guys are either delusional or evil. Box cutters didn't kill anyone. Airplanes did. How many school kids would have died last week if the murderer had stormed the school with a box cutter?

  
  
• Brian Brad, they are neither delusional nor evil.

  
  
• Brad Sorry. Those words were too strong. I apologize. They are wrong though.

  
  
• Brian It's cool, Brad. I'll respect your right to be wrong since you'll respect our right to be wrong :)

  
  
• Bill Kumpe I would suggest that the government did not reach that conclusion. They did not ban AIRLINERS but have spent billions of dollars and destroyed the Fourth Amendment to prevent sharp objects from being carried onto airliners. Sounds like they concluded the proximate cause of those deaths was box cutters.

  
  
• Dan Sound analysis by Mr. Kumpe.

  
  
• Brad  Funny.

  
  
• Bill Kumpe In the law, a proximate cause is an event sufficiently related to a legally recognizable injury to be held to be the cause of that injury. There are two types of causation in the law: cause-in-fact, and proximate (or legal) cause. Cause-in-fact is determined by the "but for" test: But for the action, the result would not have happened. For example, but for running the red light, the collision would not have occurred. For an act to cause a harm, both tests must be met; proximate cause is a legal limitation on cause-in-fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_cause

• Dan And that pretty much sums up the point I was intending to make when I posted the picture of the box knife that started this conversation.

• Brad How many school kids would have died last week if the murderer had stormed the school with a box cutter?

  
  
• Bill Kumpe How many school kids would have died if anybody on the premises had a gun in their possession? If you will notice, all of these mass shootings occur in places where guns are banned, schools, theatres, malls, etc. They never occur where somebody could shoot back.
  
  

  
  

  Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment!

  
  
• Brad Unfortunately, probably many more in the crossfire.

• Bill Kumpe That is an emotional response that has no basis in fact. Sunday morning, I will go to a church where the pastor will be carrying. He is former licensed firearms instructor. There will be a sixtyish gentleman about three or four rows over. He is a retired TPD officer. I did time in the military, including a hitch with the naval equivalent of a rifle platoon and a hitch of temp duty as a Shore Patrolman. Any one of us usually hit what we aim at and we are typical self defense folks. Also, the numbers don't support your hypothesis: http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

  
  
• 
  

  
  

  Boy Uses Dad's AR-15 to Shoot Invader

  
  
• Brad The pastor will be carrying a weapon in church???? Sorry Bill but people like you scare me. Best wishes.

  
  
• Bill Kumpe Brad, there are two types of men. Those who will assume the responsibilty for their own safety and the safety of their family and friends and those who won't. Those who won't do not understand and fear those who do. That is unfortunate. But, your decision and fear should not make me and my family victims of your fear. If you won't take responsibility for own safety fine, but don't force that decision on me and the millions like me who will defend ourselves.

  
  
• Bill Kumpe Oh BTW. Why fear a pastor with a pistol? Almost every judge I know has a large caliber pistol under their robes in the courtroom.

  
  
• Brad I repeat. You and people like you scare me. Merry Christmas.

  
  
• Dan Brad, you have nothing to fear from Bill or people like him, including me. The people you should fear are the thugs and criminals who have no qualms with breaking into and vandalizing your home, stealing and destroying your property, and assaulting, raping and murdering you and your family.

  3 hours ago · Unlike